Luke Whitehorn, Domestic & General - transcript
Rory
Hello and welcome to another episode of Mail Unleashed. Brought to you by Marketreach That's marketreach.co.uk And in the hot seat today, in this incredibly red studio. I'm honoured to be joined by Luke Whitehorn. Who is the, wait for it. Marketing Director. Yes, they still exist. Okay, the Marketing Director of Domestic and General. Not everybody has reinvented themselves as a CMO, Chief Growth Officer. Whatever it may be. And you've been there. I think if I'm right, at Domestic and General for 11 years.
Luke
Yes, yes, 11 years. I've started off as a, you know, one year little sojourn into insurances. You know, turned into over a decade there.
Rory
If I'm right, you were at British Gas beforehand. as Head of Customer Experience.
Luke
Yes. So I started off my career at British Gas. And I actually started off in the call centre. So I was customer facing. Absolutely brilliant sort of introduction, to business. Really understanding customers. Understanding their needs, who they are. And then I moved into a kind of customer experience design role. Looking at the engineer experience at British Gas. And then I moved over to Domestic and General.
Rory
Was that for service care?
Luke
For service. Yes. So engineers going into customers homes. And installing smart meters actually. So I was at the very forefront of that. Over ten years ago. And then I moved to Domestic and General. Doing a similar type of role in terms of looking at customer experiences. And that gradually morphed into more and more of a marketing type role.
Rory
And what kind of fields of insurance does the Domestic and General play? I know you do, obviously household appliances. What are the things? Is it the whole gamut?
Luke
So yeah, Domestic and General. Fundamentally we tend to say we look after the stuff that keeps your world running. Your world being your home. So, from washing machines, to dishwashers, to TV’s and boilers. Probably we’re the unsung heroes of your home. The stuff that, you know, you don't really think about it going wrong. Until it does go wrong. Of course. And then is a huge nightmare. And we, have a relatively big presence in the UK. But we also work with a number of, you know, quite big, well-known brands in the UK. So the likes of retailers like John Lewis, Argos, providers like Sky. Manufacturers like Whirlpool and Beko and Hoover Candy. We effectively work with them and on behalf of them. To run all of their kind of insurance and after care programmes. Including all the marketing. So I'm very lucky.
Rory
Any extended warranty beyond the manufacturer's own typical 12 months would be covered by you.
Luke
Exactly. Yeah. So I'm very lucky in that I kind of have the opportunity to wear lots of different hats in terms of those different brands. But what's fascinating. Is that regardless of kind of which hat I'm wearing. The importance of direct mail throughout all of them. Is really interesting.
Rory
No, it's particularly fascinating, I think, in an area like insurance. Because of course, you're paying for something completely intangible. And the fact that the company to whom you're giving money has some sort of real world presence. That actually it really exists.
Luke
Yes, 100% effectively, what we're selling is a promise. But, you know, to therefore having that kind of longevity. Keeping that customer relationship alive is really important. And building trust throughout that process is vital for us as well. Effectively, what we offer is a subscription product. And so therefore actually building a relationship with that customer. So that when they see that direct debit coming out of their bank account every month. They know what it is, who it's from, et cetera, et cetera. Means that you are really kind of building that trust. And direct mail plays a really important role in that for us. Because we are then using direct mail, as a channel to communicate with that customer. And reinforce some of that credibility.
Rory
And so it's reminding them of the ongoing value. Rather than effectively a fire and forget.
Luke
Yeah. Exactly. And then. You know, the way that we then personalise that to a customer. The way that we then kind of give, rewards to a customer. Again, the tangible nature of direct mail. Means that builds trust in a way that. You know, means that 86% of customers stay with us. Which is, you know, really high kind of, level of subscription that we see at D&G. I'm quite fortunate in the position that I'm in. In that. Domestic and General as a company has been around for over 100 years.
Rory
Yeah.
Luke
I've got 30 plus years worth of data about direct mail. That shows how effective it is. So it's quite easy for me to show you some, you know, pretty solid data, around why direct mail is. Is an effective channel to be using. But you're totally right. We get those questions really often in terms of, you know, replacing direct mail with email. Broadly, whenever we look at it. What we always come back down to. Is how actually, direct mail, email, digital marketing and outbound calling. Can work really well together in an ecosystem. And that's kind of fundamentally sort of what we find in all of the tests. All of the data that we dig into.
Rory
So I think one of your pieces of data is that 98% of pieces of mail that you send, presumably, that are correctly addressed. Are opened?
Luke
100%. And I think in insurance as an industry, this is where direct mail is really powerful. Insurance in general. Tend to like predictability. And they look at things over a long period of time. So actually direct mail fits really well with the insurance industry. Because A, You can predict things pretty accurately. And B, you're looking at the predictability over quite a long period of time. Some other industries, you know, want to see that immediate return. Well, I can see that I sent an email out yesterday and immediately within 24 hours. You’ve basically got 95% of the, responses in terms of the impact of that. With direct mail you're going to have to wait a month, two months. And then after three months go. What does that actually look like in terms of the overall impact? The customers who responded directly, as well as the customers who, through that halo effect, responded indirectly and look at that across the piece. And that's where I think, insurance probably does just have that mind set where direct mail does have a more of an open door. Because there is a tendency to look at things over a longer period of time. What I love about direct mail is that it's a blank canvas. In a way that email and digital marketing isn’t. You know, with email and digital marketing. You are limited to how a person scrolls. That's effectively what you limited to. With a blank sheet of paper. You can use some really clever eye tracking software. To understand how a person actually interacts with a piece of paper. They don't read it from top to bottom. They look at the bar on the right hand side. They look at who it's from. They look at this thing down here, which is a bit highlighted in a different colour. And so actually the potential for testing and direct mail. Is, in my opinion, much greater than some of the other channels.
Rory
And so what excites you? What frightens you? Particularly in the field of technology and indeed in the potential for AI to generate physical communications, not only digital, ones.
Luke
What I see in direct mail recently. Is the data bods are actually on the front line leading the charge as well. So, we had recently a new Chief Data Officer join. The first conversation I had with him. He was so excited about the potential of direct mail. Because we've got a lot of the data around it. And actually, from his perspective, we haven't re-unlocked that data. And, you know, that's where I think there's so much potential and where AI can really come into its own. In terms of unlocking that kind of opportunity. And for me, there's three areas of AI within sort of direct marketing. In particular that I think there's going to be, potentially, you know, really that the power could be unleashed. The first is around the propensity modeling. So being able to use all the data that we have on appliances, on customers. To understand when is the right time to talk to a customer. What is the right message? And what's the best channel?
Rory
Because the AI can actually read the content in a letter. And therefore maybe make sensible analogies or look for patterns?
Luke
Yes. Yeah.
Rory
In a way that previously you had to categorise creative in a very crude way. So that in itself is absolutely intriguing, isn't it?
Luke
So I think that kind of first element around, you know, coming back to AI. That kind of first element around, you know, the propensity modeling. The way you can harness data in order to create experiences that drive relationships, is really exciting. The second thing is around how we can use, gen AI to actually test creatives. In thousands of different ways. In a way which we've never been able to do before. You know, you can make. And I'm sure you've seen this in your kind of experience. Some really minor changes to, DM creative and have a huge impact. And then the third thing, and for me, this is probably the most important element of kind of where AI can really hope to, unleash the power of direct mail. Is in creating proper attribution models. Because we have consistently for the last well. All the my sort of experience. We’ve consistently undervalued direct mail.
Rory
Simply because it’s slow.
Luke
Because it’s slow and it's quite difficult to get details of all of the data. Again, to be able to create those attribution models, that means that. We can more accurately assign the right sales to the right channels. Or, even better. Have the right ecosystem of channels that work together to deliver the outcome that you want.
Rory
Just one final thing. I just love to know before you go. Your work with the Christadelphians on the One Meal a day campaign. I understand you're a voluntary Marketing Director for them, too.
Luke
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Marketing Director times two. So, yeah, in my spare time. Not that there's much of it these days. I’m Marketing Director for a charity called Christadelphian Meal-A-Day. So it's kind of. I got involved with it through my church. And it's a charity, that helps to effectively provide, meals and security to children in Africa. So we provide just under a million meals a year. To children across kind of. Well, mainly in Kenya and Cameroon. A bit of South Africa as well. And, you know, it's very much around, you know, that sort of tagline of giving, you know, children at least one meal a day.
Rory
Do you use direct mail in that capacity? I thought you might.
Luke
Yeah, yeah. Direct mail. A lot of it is around sort of leaflets and those kind of physical things as well. Kind of explain to people what we do. And I suppose the thing that always resonates. Not just with me, but all of the people who do donate as well. Are just the photographs of some of these children being fed. And it's amazing the power of those photographs. In actually moving people to be able, to give and to continue to support what is a wonderful charity. And I suppose that the plug there is, that it's all volunteer based. So, all of the proceeds, apart from a small amount of sort of, overheads go direct to the provision of meals. Which is, you know, a wonderful thing about that relatively small size charity.
Rory
Well, Luke, that's been absolutely fantastic. I mean, it's been a pleasure to meet you. I've learned an enormous amount. That's all for today's episode of Mail Unleashed. Brought to you by Marketreach. If you'd like to know more about how you can unleash the power of direct mail and other nice, tangible forms of communication, within your marketing mix. I suggest you head over to marketreach.co.uk. But that's all for this time. All that remains for me to say is, Luke, once again, thank you very, very much indeed. And see you next time.