Margaret Jobling - NatWest Group - Transcript

Rory

Hello folks, and welcome to another edition of Mail Unleashed. Today, I'm particularly delighted to be joined by one of the doyens. I think of both direct marketing and marketing. In the shape of Margaret Jobling. Currently, Chief Marketing Officer of NatWest Group. But previously, I think you've done stints with 16 years at Unilever. Is that right? You've done, definitely British Gas, Centrica. You’ve done Cadbury's if I'm right? Probably missing one here.

Margaret

Birdseye. Bit of private equity.

Rory

And a bit of private equity. But I imagine pretty much the high point of all that must have been the NatWest sponsorship of team GB at the Paris Olympics? I mean, tell us a bit about that.

Margaret

That was pretty special, to be honest. I think for multiple reasons. One, we saw a massive employee engagement. So our colleagues loved it. Two customer engagement. We signed the contract about 12 months before the games. So we had, as I said, the Olympics waited for nine months. So we had quite a, I would say. Frenetic fight pass to get to the games. And then obviously the experience of the Olympics, which was pretty phenomenal.

Rory

And then you have the thing. Which I suppose, it's one massive commitment and one quite large cheque. But it only really works. I think those sponsorships only really work if you take it all the way into the details. Into every single touchpoint. And given the number of digital and analogue touchpoints you must have. That must have been an absolutely grueling 12 months just in terms of production work.

Margaret

Yeah, I think it's a bit like childbirth. You forget the pain afterwards. So you can live and enjoy the moment. I mean just the orchestration. And to your point. Unless you push it through all the touchpoints. Actually, you miss the opportunity, it becomes marketing spend versus you create the experience. So for us it was a gigantic, massive undertaking, but well worth it. We saw a massive shift in our employee engagement. and customer engagement with the brands.

Rory

I think there's also a really important point in all that. Which is. It applies to sponsorship, but it kind of applies to everything. Which is this multiplier effect between different media. That when consumers see something in a different medium. Fundamentally it isn’t additive. It's kind of multiplicative.

Margaret

I totally agree.

Rory

I mean, one of the things I think that's important with a relationship with a financial institution. As it becomes increasingly dematerialised. Is that those things that remain material or physical. Actually take on a disproportionately important role. And trust particularly I think, you know. I mean, one of the things I think I can see an increasing role for direct mail, physical direct mail. In financial questions. Is actually fraud prevention. The whole question that. Broadly speaking, it's pretty easy to do a scam in email. And pretty inexpensive. But that's a different question. If you know, people aren't really going to pay for 100,000 letters. In the same way as they might have 100,000 emails. And so what's physical becomes more and more important, I think. But, I mean, you still are not only and just obviously the delivery of cards and things of that kind. You still are a pretty heavy as a as a user of direct mail. Do you encounter some resistance in that, there's always a drive from finance to dematerialised and digitise everything. And do you have to sort of push back and say. Look actually, this is about effectiveness not efficiency.

Margaret

Couple of points. One, I totally agree with you. I think physical and digital will become ever more important. Particularly in a world where authenticity, trust, is going to become harder to find. And we see that. I mean, in banking. Fraud, scam is massively on the rise. And I think that's ever so going to be. So I think the combination of the two and we talk a lot about omnichannel. You know, how do you get the synergistic effect of channels. The physical is trusted. We know when you see some of the stats on mail specifically, 71% of people trust what they get through the mail. And therefore for us, it's an important touchpoint. We don't get pushback. It’s a bit like everything else. You know. If you are data led, if you evidence return on investment. Then actually the case stands for itself. So, we know mail plays a really important role. And then when you get your new card. It comes through the mail. There's a reason for that. Because it's a trusted channel. So we play it in the context of the role it brings to the channels. And therefore it does play an important part for us in financial service.

Rory

One of the things that always strikes me as valuable about mail, physical mail, in that environment. Is that you have a target audience. You know who they are. But the target moment, which is at what moment of their week or month. Do people choose to engage with their finances. And one thing that always strikes me as pretty good about mail. Is that it's keepable. So I think the average piece gets kept from sort of 5 or 6 days. And it's what I call the toast rack effect. You go, good idea, wrong time.You then put it by, and deal with it at that weird moment of the week where you decide to do your admin. And of course, digital doesn't have that same facility. Not nearly to the same extent.And so that question of actually reaching people, not only the right person, but reaching them at a time of their own choosing. Because I always thought it's a bit of a failure of digital advertising. Which is when you read a newspaper ad. It was when you'd chosen to do some reading.And when you saw a TV ad, it was when you'd chosen to sit down and watch a screen. But an awful lot of digital advertising arrives when you're trying to pay a parking fine or something. And it's totally inappropriate in terms of its context. And so I suppose physical mail and anything administrative has a real strength.

Margaret

Yeah. Totally agree. And quite often people want to file it. They want to keep it. It’s evidence, particularly when some of the documentation we send out. It could be, terms and conditions, factsheets. The important information that people want to go back to. Because sometimes, you don't need it at that point in time. But you want to refer back to it. We talked a bit about your British Gas contract. You know. When you want the fine detail. Of course you want that.

Rory

You want somewhere in a file. In a bit of paper. Yeah.

Margaret

Which isn't always at the point of receiving. Also we see a lot of people screen out email.I mean. I think if you look at open rates. We know open rate over DM, versus open rate of an email. They seem very different quantum's of engagement in some of the other channels.

Rory

So there’s this is fantastic finding that if you can measure it well enough. Campaigns involving direct mail. If you can find the right moment. Apparently 52% more likely to report significant ROI benefits. The thing that always worries me is the number of times that it never happens. Largely because I think a lot of people with a financial background and you must be surrounded by them. Tend to see efficiency as a proxy for effectiveness. And consequently, they see a low cost channel which wins 50 customers. As somehow more efficient than a higher cost channel that might win 150. And I think that question of measurement and long term measurement is really vital. And by the way, I mean. I remember having a conversation with Ocado where someone described. They described their direct mail as annoyingly effective. And it sounds really strange to say. Except that they were always under pressure not to do it. And therefore have to spend a lot of energy defending it. So I always assume that. I must admit. That mail still has a massive role. But that it's outbound not inbound. And the days of the coupon are numbered. It's a bit like what I always say about the sleeper train to Scotland. You'll take it one way, but not both.Yet, you’ve got an extraordinary story from I think Centrica? Where you find the most successful response channel. Was asking people to take out a pen and tick a box. Correct.

Margaret

Yeah. Roll off end of tariff. So we sent literally paper. And said do you want to renew. Yes or no? Tick. And we send it back. And that was some of the best responses we've ever seen.

Rory

You could get it even higher I suspect, by borrowing from Reader's Digest and having a yes, no sticker. If you wanted to go that far. But one of the extraordinary things about, I think the excessive sort of obsession with fashionability of digital. Is that, I always think that the opposite of a good idea is another good idea. And that there's always a counter trend to every trend. And one of the things we're not testing enough. Is we're not testing long copy press. Because it's just old fashioned. Yeah. And we're probably not testing, tick a box. Because it's just. And this is a terribly kind of fashion driven business, in a way. I mean, jingles disappear. Not because they stopped working. But because effectively people thought they were unfashionable. And deliberately bucking the trend. Any other thoughts? I mean, you're clearly. You're continually and loyally committed to this channel as part of your testing strategy. And, do you see this demographic trend that it's declining efficiency. Or do you actually find that Gen Z is sometimes just as likely to respond as anybody else?

Margaret

I think Gen Z are as likely, if not more likely to respond as anyone else. I mean, I do think there's something interesting about your point on, you know, how quickly we get bored with channels and just move on. I think the way we're going to have to engage in the future is going to fundamentally change. Because if you look at what's happening, whether it's, searchability, discoverability. You know, how are brands going to differentiate. I think you need to pull every single lever at your disposal.

Rory

Well, this has been fantastic. And it's confirmed quite a lot of my existing weird prejudices. That we're turning our back on disciplines. And also on lifelong learnings. Simply because of fashion rather than any meaningful, measurable results or effectiveness. And all that remains for me to say is. If you'd like to know more about how you can unleash the power of your direct mail for your own business. You'll find a lot more on this at marketreach.co.uk Margaret, it's been a joy as always. Thank you very much and see you all next time. Thank you.